What Are Good Things About Having A Lousy Boss?

I have a weird question for Work Matters readers, one I've been fretting over for a couple weeks. 

What are some GOOD things about working for a BAD boss?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this odd question.  Here is the story of how it came about.

About two weeks back, I enjoyed a long dinner with a couple good friends of mine -- whose names must be kept anonymous given the facts that follow.  I generally like to name names, but in this case, I will not out them and will also omit identifying information (and change a couple key descriptions) to protect both the innocent and the guilty.

To get back to our dinner, we were among the first people at the place and the last to leave because we were having so much fun talking many different topics -- why incremental innovation is sometimes under appreciated (well, not in China... and look how they are doing) and why breakthrough innovations are overqualified, how the best way to influence your spouse is through your kids rather than directly, and why the 130 proof bourbon that the bartender gave us to try was a cool idea -- especially because the ice cubes sink in it -- but too much like drinking lighter fluid for our tastes. 

But this blog post is about the topic we kept coming back to, the idea that, well, bad bosses aren't all bad.  Of course, we all had suffered through bad bosses, and had seen them do all kinds of damage.  BUT -- and this the thread I thought I would raise here -- during the course of the conversation, we all started realizing that a bad boss -- especially the kind who doesn't really have the power to hurt you very much -- can be a great thing in some ways.  The notion that you can learn a lot about what NOT to do from a bad boss has been around for decades . A charming version of this argument is in Robert Towsend's classic Up The Organization, where he asserts that much of what he learned about being a good boss came from working for such awful bosses at American Express early in his career.

The focus of our conversation about bad bosses, however, turned a different direction that I am still fretting over.  One of my friends had just ended a long stint working for a lousy boss, one who could be a selfish asshole at times and was a legendary backstabber and narcissist.  He talked about how great it was that this selfish jerk had been removed from his management job and was now working a line job again, and how his new boss was thus far amazing -- selfless, open, always thinking about was good for his group rather than himself, listening all the time, practicing constant empathy. This guy could be the poster child for Good Boss, Bad Boss.

Then, my other friend chimed in and talked about how he wished he had such a boss because his current boss was so lame.  She was inept in many ways, especially committing sins of omission: not going to meetings she should, not answering emails no matter how important, not following through on commitments, not jumping into help his team when she said she would, not having the guts to deal with performance problems, not reaching outside of the organization to develop a stronger network, and perhaps worst of all, constantly spending time planning and talking and brainstorming -- but pretty much being unable or unwilling to actually get anything done.  This boss could be the poster child for The Knowing-Doing Gap.

Then, however, the conversation took an interesting turn that still gnaws at my mind. The guy with the good boss said to the one with the bad boss "Be careful what you wish for, I got the great boss I want, and it has disadvantages."

He went on to explain that, when he had that inept boss, he felt obligated to take only minimal steps to help his organization.  He did everything he could to avoid contact with his boss -- and would never lift a finger to help that asshole succeed.  He wasn't the only one in his group who reacted that way: Alienation was high and the commitment was low throughout.  But he didn't just mess around at work. He devoted his energy to developing a big book of business and for developing a great reputation among clients.  In other words, and this is the key point, he was treated sufficiently badly by his boss (as were others), that he felt free to act largely in his self-interest.

BUT with this new and nearly model boss, he and many of his colleagues are spending much more time working to help the organization in all sorts of ways -- to recruit new people, to repair broken procedures, to attend every group meeting, to develop business that helps the organization and not necessarily themselves.  As a result, he is spending far less time doing things that benefited only him, and as a result, not only is making a bit less money, he is having less fun too. He now feels compelled to do things that he doesn't like to benefit his group and organization -- because he respects and admires his boss so much, and didn't want to let him down.

Then, we started quizzing my friend who still had the bad boss.  Our friend has become a total star in recent years.  The work his team does is bringing in a third of the group's revenue, he has freedom to do what he wants, his boss is rather afraid of him so almost never tells what to do, he is making a lot of money, and -- while he is still doing many things to help his group succeed -- he is far more respected both inside and outside the organization than his boss.  As my friend with the new good boss warned him, if you got your dream boss -- or worse yet they gave you your bosses job -- you might feel great in some ways.  But your life would change for the worse in other ways.  You would start doing more things that benefited your organization that were not in your pure self-interest, you would spend more time doing things to help others that you would rather not do, you would go to more meetings with people who are of no interest to you --and even dislike -- because doing so was for the greater good.

The conversation went back and forth in this vein for awhile, and although all three of us still believe that bad bosses suck on the whole, we started wondering if a more general, elaborate, and evidence-absed argument might be made about the upsides of working for a loser.  In this post, there are some hints:

1. You can learn what NOT to do.

2. If you just have ordinary competence, you look like a genius compared to your boss.

3.  You don't feel compelled to waste time doing extra things that help your group and organization.  After all,  if they aren't doing much for you or are treating you badly (via your boss), why should you do anything to help them?

3. Your boss is so inept at implementation that it isn't worthwhile going to meetings, generating ideas, or suggesting now paths the organization might take. None of it will happen in anyway, so why waste your time?

4.  A lousy boss probably needs you more than a good boss -- and thus you may have power -- because you keep bailing him or her out, bringing in money or clients that he or she is too inept to do, and performing other competent acts that protect the boss and make the boss look better than he or she really deserves.

5. If the boss leaves (perhaps is fired -- but in too many organizations lousy bosses get promoted), and you get the job, people will think you are brilliant because of the power of psychological contrast. (I am cheating here, as this is really about an advantage of taking a position last held by a horrible boss).

I am partly having fun here and partly serious.  Yet as we talked about the good and bad bosses my friends had, and other bosses we had known and worked for, we realized that there are some perhaps under appreciated advantages to having a bad boss.  I am not sure how far to take this, but for now, perhaps we could have some fun. Let's try a little thought exercise and look at the same thing as everyone else, but to try to see it differently.

So, once more, I want to hear from you:

What do you think? What are some other advantages of working for lousy boss?

Comments

[Peter Stucki]

I once came across a comic strip which praised the Lousy Boss and the Corporate Drone Job as the quintessential incubator for entrepreneurial success. The cartoon claimed that a Drone Job was undemanding enough to finance your dream idea, much in that the Swiss Patent Office job was dull enough to allow Young Einstein to develop his Theories of Relativity.
The Bad Boss (as long as he/she isn't a totalitarian dictator) is indifferent enough to allow you the freedom, but bad enough to "sour the milk" of the "corporate teat" and force you to go out and start a business or follow that dream of your own....
My Bad Boss got me to quit and write that novel I always wanted to. My other Bad Boss got me to quit and gain great clarity, the kind you can't get otherwise, from a neighbor lady suffering terminal cancer who said, "Don't waste good time on fear. Ignore fear and spend your limited time on what really matters."

[CareerAnnie]

Nope. I would trade all the bad bosses in the world for one good one. My short experience with a less-than-perfect boss was the worst of my life. Sure, I learned avoidance techniques and my emotional limits, but to what end? Being marooned in the wilderness is likely to teach you a few things about survival, but mostly it just sucks.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Bob,

My first time commenting so I'd like to say how much I enjoy your writing. I keep telling anyone who will listen about your books and yesterday convinced the (very expensive) organisational redesign people who are currently doing a big piece of work on values and behaviours at where I work to put 'strong views, lightly held' as a key point for our senior leaders, as it is such a great summary of what people try to express about what they want/need from good bosses.

Ok, on to this fascinating thought experiment. I reckon there's a lot to be said for the reframing. I've worked for some truly terrible bosses and have consistently learned huge amounts from them - about myself, my abilities, what I don't want to do and what I do want to do.

I am passionate about good management and leadership and am fortunuate enough to have had some luck with doing ok at it, mostly due to learning what NOT to do from the terrible bosses I worked for. (Although I recognise I don't truly understand what it's like to work for me! And that I never get it right all the time, or even most of the time, is a constant balancing act)

The point about how a bad boss can make you look good is really true as well. The three worst bosses I worked for, early on in my career, were truly dreadful and not terribly well respected in the organisations. As a result, I ended up with an excellent reputation with senior leaders in all three organisations and with offers of help, requests for advice and generally very strong relationships.

It's also really easy to back myself and my opinions/views if I have no respect for my boss - if they disagree, doesn't bother me or make me question myself. This is really useful for propelling oneself forward!

My last two organisations, I've had excellent bosses, both excellent in very different ways. And the truth is, I haven't learned much about how to be a manager from either of them! I've learned about other things but the best bits of my management come from remembering what it's like to be treated badly, and being determined not to repeat that.

Anyway, thanks for the great books and blog, I'll look forward to the follow up to this post.

[Jsaaby]

The ONLY things I've ever learned from bad bosses, is how I don't want to be.

Which has actually been very helpful, as I'm educating towards leadership. It's really solidified my beliefs on how I don't want to be or act.

It's given me a very strong view of what's dehumanizing teams and organizations, and why that's a bad thing.

Other than that, it's just been stressful to deal with them.

[Michael D]

For every potential rockstar that thrives under a bad boss, how many become so demoralized that they never recover and find their rhythm? Reasoning by anecdote does not work here.

The good boss in this post isn't really a good boss. He asked his employees to put everything on the table for the team and keep nothing for themselves. He wasn't a mean controlling a**hole, but he may have been a nice controlling a**hole.

Good bosses give you space to pursue your goals. Bosses who don't do this don't deserve to be called good bosses, no matter how well they sugarcoat their controlling behaviors.

[Vicki]

One advantage I have experienced is that the bad boss gave me the motivation to do what I truly yearn to do. I'd rather be struggling doing something I truly believe in than comfortable doing things that go against the grain of my being.

Next phase of my career in motion now. :-)

[Paula]

Bad boss good stuff:
1. Individual limits - bad bosses teach you very good awareness of yourself and your emotional resilience.
2. Sharpened avoidance techniques - bad bosses help you learn sensational avoidance techniques for people and work which make study avoidance mode look like a picnic.
3. self awareness - bad bosses teach you self awareness of your own management techniques, particularly of people.
4. Who you don't want to be or perceived to be - bad bosses help you realise who you don't want to be or be perceived as either personally or professionally

[davidburkus]

Interesting question. Makes me think of the late Steve Jobs. By all reports, he was a bit of a jerk to work for, but yet seemed to bring out the best in people.

[Larry]

"What does not kill me makes me stronger." Nietzsche. While good times or bosses are more enjoyable, bad times and bosses make us stronger.

[Jenilee]

Bob,

I see. The "silver lining." In that case I'd like to add my own experience with a bad boss:

My bad boss was very intelligent but had absolutely no people skills. He lacked empathy, diplomacy and tact. Still, I am the better for it. He critiqued just about everything: from my written communication to my clothes. I became hyper-vigilant about how I presented myself and how others perceived me. In retrospect, this has served me well in my professional career. Although I wish I could have arrived at the same place in a different manner, those days have passed and I have grown as a result.

[Larry]

I agree with Jeremy that it very much depends on what kind of bad boss one has. To paraphrase Tolstoi, bad bosses are each bad in unique ways; good bosses are all very similar. Moreover, is this not a restatement of the aphorism that one learns more from one's mistakes than from one's successes? I want some 130 proof bourbon.

[Bob Sutton]

Elad,

Many of your arguments seem reasonable, but what disturbs me is that you don't seem to get that this is more of a thought experiment, a way of re-framing something bad as good -- to see what happens when you look at the same thing as everyone else and think of it differently.

I could go into point by point argument... but that is not what this is about. But to take just one, I could point many situations in organizations I know well -- from universities, to large high tech organizations, to a big hospital chain I know -- where individuals who have bad bosses, but are renowned for their skills and political sense, do get more power -- more pay, more respect -- than they otherwise would because they have lousy bosses, which makes them look better by contrast and also they are more objectively valuable because they compensate and clean-up for their crummy bosses. This point is consistent with the cognitive switch I am asking for...

[Elad Sherf]

Personality, I don’t buy the points you present.

Point #1 – yes you can learn from watching bad bosses. But can’t you also learn from having great bosses? I am not sue you can’t. Actually a great boss will make sure you learn along the way. With this logic. We will always have bad bosses every second third generation. I don’t see the need ot the sense in that given the other disadvantages of having a bad boss.
Point #2 – maybe, but why is this important? Is there some kind of competition? I am not sure what exactly is the benefit of that? In addition to assuming that somebody is actually looking and comparing you too (which I am not sure is always true), this point assumes that you are doing the same comparable job… I think this will become more and more rare…
Point #3 – maybe I am naïve but I am not sure I understand this distinction between “me” and the organization of the “job”. Aren’t they the same? Isn’t part of your job (and reputation, and skills) is OCB? Isn’t part of your job is interaction with others (which also has benefits which are not included here). If you are really doing you don’t like and are not competent at for a long time, perhaps your boss is not as good as you claim he or she is.
Point #3b – not sure who this is another point in favor of bad bosses…looks like more to #3, in that case, see above.
Point #4- again, being a bit naïve, but a good boss negates this entire idea of “power”. The idea of “power” (at least in the sense I understand it here from the context) is needed, if decisions are not made in a process that benefits the organization and its employees. I the boss is good, it will happen not matter how much power you have. The need of employees to use “power” of this sort, points, in my mind to a mismanaged organization.
Point #5 – as you mention yourself, this is cheating. Not sure if all the employees with bad bosses (and their organizations) really benefit from the possibility of replacing the boss and being good at it.

Yes, we should make the most out of every situation, however I don’t see that these things are more important than the benefits of a really good boss.
Just my 2 cents,
Elad

[Bob Sutton]

Jenilee,

I agree completely that bad bosses are bad and should not be tolerated, but depending on which data you believe, at one time, 20% to %50% of the working people on the planet have a bad boss. So they are tolerated and people get in situations where they need to make the best of a bad situation. So that is where I want to go with this --sorry to be rather crass, but if your organization is getting screwed and you've done what you can to stop or slow the damage done by your bad boss, I see nothing wrong with doing what you can to help yourself! Of course, so long as it is not unethical.

[Jenilee]

At best, bad bosses are a mixed bag for employees. Some major *benefits* to having a bad boss are that they can provide perspective, encourage autonomy, and promote leadership (as described above).

The extra power or efficiency that you may get from a bad boss (as described above) does not seem like much of a benefit to me. If you have a good boss you will perform better, and the same benefits will come.

On a side note, I'd like to point out that bad bosses are bad for organizations. If you agree, then the question of whether they're good for employees becomes less important. If bad bosses are bad for business, we shouldn't tolerate them, period.

[Walt]

My thought is having a bad boss is nearly always bad, especially when compared to what you could have gained with having a good boss/mentor/champion.

The stress and frustration caused by a bad boss is sometimes not felt quite as strongly with the passing of time.

If some have fond memories or see some sort of silver lining, then then they subscribe to Nietzsche's: That which doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger.

Life's too short. Sure an unreliable car would improve my mechanic skills. Getting taken by a con artist would make me shrewder and more aware. Getting robbed would make me learn to get better directions. Et cetera.

[Jeremy]

Maybe it depends on the type of bad boss they are. Micromanaging types of bosses are going to disallow the freedom you mention, and actually make it harder to think creatively, act independently, and get things done.

Bad bosses I've had in the past like those in your article did motivate me to prove myself more competent, intelligent, and a harder worker than they were. That may have taught me something about the value of perception, but generally it just made me work harder and look better than them for that period of time that they were my boss. However, good bosses I've had who allowed for creative thinking and encouraged acting independently have been the bosses that I've learned the most long-lasting lessons from over the years: punctuality, hard work, creative thought, being detail oriented, thinking big picture, etc.

[Bob Sutton]

Melissa,

Thanks, great story. I had a similar experience with making excuses when I worked at a pizza place when I was a teenager.

[Melissa]

A bad boss broke me of a bad habit.

I was one of those deeply earnest kids who had an overinflated vocabulary. When I got nervous I would use bigger words.

Then I had a bad boss who didn't share my vocabulary. He wouldn't tell me he didn't understand but he would get deeply suspicious and angry if I used words he didn't understand.

When I figured this out I had a really strong motivation to learn to use smaller word and speak more clearly.

It was a bad experience, but the lesson has served me well.